In this episode of the “I Am a Mainframer” podcast, Steven Dickens is joined by Leonard (Len) Santalucia, Chief Technology Officer at Vicom Infinity. During this fascinating conversation, Len shares his family’s long history as IBMers — both his father and grandfather worked for IBM — and traces the beginning of his own career “origin story” to when he was 11 years old in 1964 with the announcement of the 360 mainframe. Family members have told Len that he actually touched the first 360 when they went to see it on IBM’s family day!
Their conversation also dives into Len’s instrumental role in bringing Linux to the mainframe, his involvement in the Linux Foundation’s Open Mainframe Project which is close to having its own mainframe infrastructure, and what that’s going to mean for the community. This is one conversation you won’t want to miss!
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TRANSCRIPT
Voiceover:
This is the “I Am A Mainframer” podcast, brought to you by the Linux Foundations Open Mainframe Project. Episodes explore the careers of mainframe professionals and offer insights into the industry and technology. Now your host, senior analyst and vice president of sales and business development at Futurum Research, Steven Dickens.
Steven Dickens:
Hello and welcome. My name’s Stephen Dickens and you’re joining us here on the I am a Mainframer podcast. I’m really looking forward to today because I’ve got a dear friend joining us on the show, Len Santalucia. Welcome my friend. How are you?
Leonard Santalucia:
Oh good Steve, how are you?
Steven Dickens:
Yeah, I’m good. I’m good. Always great to be chatting with you. Len, one of the few people who probably needs no introduction but because we’ve got a broad audience, just let us get us started here. Tell us a little bit about your role, what you do for Vicom and we’ll use that as a jumping-off point.
Leonard Santalucia:
Sure. Hi everybody, I’m Len Santalucia. I am with Viacom Infinity, which is a Converge company. I am our CTO and business development manager. And I’ve been here for, oh I would say since around 2000, tail end of 2008. But prior to that I was an IBM’er for a long time, almost 31 years. And I’ve been with the mainframe all this time since I started working in 1978 with IBM.
Steven Dickens:
Well, that gives me a great set up. The show’s called I am a Mainframer. And I’ve heard you tell this story on the main stage before, Len. But I think there’s so much in it. Tell our listeners about… Let’s go back all the way, and maybe do a bit of a story arc. You’ve got one of probably the best careers I’ve come across in the mainframe space. But let’s go back right to the beginning. Tell the listeners and viewers here kind of how you got started. Because I think your origin story as they call it today in the sort of superhero world, is really fantastic.
Leonard Santalucia:
Well, thank you. And very proud of it as you might imagine. It’s funny how it all unfolded. When the mainframe was announced in 1964, April 7, I was just turning 11 years old. I was 10 and a half years old. And my father and grandfather who are IBMers, or they’re no longer with us, but they were IBMers for a long time too, took me to the announcement of the mainframe, the 360 announcement. And they tell me, I’m trying to clear out the cob webs, but they tell me I touched that first 360 that was there on the floor for the family day, where everybody came in with their families to see it. But I’ll take their word for it and I don’t mind saying that anyway.
And I’d say my career started back then. I think I can. But when I got out of college in ’73, I graduated from Binghamton University, which is a big IBM college because it’s right next to Endicott, New York where IBM started in the 1924 timeframe. And I was a graduate from there.
I worked on mainframes then when I was part of my degree from the business school, school of management. And when I got out of school I was kind of the black sheep of the family with my father and grandfather, when I got a job with a couple of companies that no longer exist Digital Equipment Corporation and Burroughs Corporation, for the first few years of my career.
But it certainly wasn’t that way as a fault of mine because I really tried very hard to get into IBM, being an IBM’er, being a member of an IBM family. But they didn’t have hiring going on at that time. But I kept persisting and persisting until 1978 came along, and they saw the light. And they hired good old Lem Santalucia. And it was right there in Endicott, New York where I started on as a program support rep on VSE and MBS, which now z/OS of course. And z/VM working with customers on their problems and learning from the ground up what systems can do, which I will definitely hold as a very important part of my career because it really gave me some great background to really understand how the intricacies of the system really was.
Steven Dickens:
Len, I mean you’ve got such a fantastic story arc and this could be a four-part podcast show that goes on for hours, but I got to keep us moving.
Leonard Santalucia:
Okay, sure.
Steven Dickens:
But I know there’s a sort of key point and we’ve got some shared history around this. Wind us forward to maybe ’98, ’99, if you would. I know you played an instrumental role in bringing Linux to the platform. Maybe skip us ahead if you can, sort wind forward the clock 20 years. Linux is coming to the mainframe. Just talk us through some of your involvement in those early days because I know there’s some interesting stuff there.
Leonard Santalucia:
Certainly. Well, along comes the year 1999, Steven. And I was approached by IBM because I was doing work with UNIX system services, and Open Edition inside of z/OS. And they said, “Well, we’re going to bring a real Linux thing to this.” And I said, “Really?” And I said, “What does that really mean?”
And I was trying to figure it out. And the first thing I did was ah, I said, “I think I’ll stay with what I know. And thank you but no thank you.” But then they kept persisting at me. And they kind of made me an offer I couldn’t refuse. I did take it and boy was it the best thing I ever did, Stephen. I’ll tell you. Helping, I was first member of what was known back then as the Linux Impact Team. And it was when IBM decided to bring Linux on all platforms, on the mainframe, on P series as it was called back then, Power. And XERI, which is X Systems back then. Greatest thing I ever did because I only had only Linux mainframe experience only.
But having to learn it across all the platforms in real time and being affiliated with the Wall Street customers as I was all those years, it was a very good experience. We were right in the middle of a storm of requests for Linux across the X Systems. And then when they started putting too many of them in, they started saying, “Hey, how are we going to slow this down and consolidate some of this?”
And of course along comes Linux on Z, story for me at the same time with virtualization capability, with z/VM at the time. And they started really taking a hold of it and they really liked what consolidation is, so they can mix and match, because Linux was Linux. And they were able to get control of their environments cause, thank God for the mainframe with Z and it’s virtualization consolidation capabilities. That’s a little bit of how it started, Stephen, with that Linux Impact team.
Steven Dickens:
Well, let’s use that as a pivot to tell your story. I know there’s still a lot of said z/OS and still a lot of traditional mainframe there. But I know you’ve been involved from the get go with the Open Mainframe project. I know when I was kind of bootstrapping you that you were one of the first people to jump in with both feet.
But tell us what the last sort of six, seven years; you’ve moved on from IBM. You’re now at Vicom. But give us, as we try and get the story arc, maybe let’s do the last sort of 2015 in the Open Mainframe project. And then sort of do that segment of your career.
Leonard Santalucia:
Certainly. First of all, I have you to thank most of all. And I sincerely mean it.
Steven Dickens:
Careful what you wish for, Len I think was the story of that call.
Leonard Santalucia:
Nah, it was fine. It was fine. I’m glad I took it on. And you didn’t really have to twist my arm too much cause I…
Steven Dickens:
You didn’t know what I was signing you up for, thankfully at the time.
Leonard Santalucia:
Yeah, it’s all right. It goes, “If you don’t do anything like that, you never learn anything.” It’s the old saying, “If you’re not the lead dog, the view never changes.” I really enjoyed taking on the responsibility of becoming the first member, as well as being asked to be the chairperson of the Linux Foundation’s Open Mainframe project governing board. And I’ve been there since then. What was that eight years now, Stephen? I think?
Steven Dickens:
Yeah, I think I did it for about nine months, and then handed the bat over to you once we got up and running.
Leonard Santalucia:
Yeah. And my God, it’s just been a whirlwind. It doesn’t feel like it. I can’t believe all this time has gone by because getting it off the ground, getting projects going, getting people to want to volunteer to do projects and making decisions, business decisions for the group, and then working along with the technical advisory board also. It’s just been fantastic. And now we’re way over 20 projects. I’ve been involved with the Open Mainframe Project’s acquisition of their own mainframe. Nobody would ever have thought the place where Linus Torvalds works, that they would get their own mainframe. Can you imagine that?
Steven Dickens:
Yeah, I think even I would’ve struggled to see that vision back in 2015.
Leonard Santalucia:
Oh, ever [inaudible 00:10:28] on 2015, right? Now, Marist College was gracious enough to give floor space to the OMP. It doesn’t have its own place to put anything. And they’re letting it plug in and tie it and hook it into the network. Along comes 2023. We should be able to get that up and running. And all of the projects will have a nice place to run and test and develop the…
Steven Dickens:
What’s the significance of that going to be, Len? I mean I think I know. I know you know. But maybe just for the listeners and the viewers here, what’s the significance of an open source project such as the Open Mainframe Project, having its own mainframe infrastructure? What’s that going to mean for the community?
Leonard Santalucia:
Well, now that we have a real place where it is monitored and managed, and in fact it happens to be our company who is going to be doing that. And they need a real platform with Linux on z/VM or under KVM. Or they want to actually do some open source development on the z/OS side or, z/VSE side of the box.
They have a place to go now. And a benefit of be being a member of the Linux Foundation Open Mainframe project, they will have this resource available to them. Otherwise they’d have to try to find hook or by crook, someplace else. I mean, we have been allowing people to use our machine. But our machine, you never know from one day to the next if it’s going to be up or down. It’s really a pure development, not really watched over rail. But we do take care of those that are on there now.
We have about six or seven projects on there now, they’re using. But as soon as the z/15 at the OMP is up and running, we’re going to flip them all right over there. And they’ll be on a real nice system that’s properly managed and monitored and they need something, they got support, real true support.
Steven Dickens:
Yeah, I think that’s going to be huge for the community, just for open source developers to be able to drop onto a managed mainframe environment, get resources, develop code, and really sort of drive that forward, it’s going to just be huge. I think just to supercharge the development going forward for the 20 projects that you describe, and the ones that’ll come down the track afterwards.
Leonard Santalucia:
Oh, yeah. I think there are places now, or projects that have been talked about. I know some of them have talked me off to the side at the Open Mainframe Project Summit and at other meetings and share and other conferences and so on. And I could tell they were looking for a place to have and I said, “Just keep watch. Keep in touch with me. And we’re going to have a place for you not too far down the road.” Because then they’ll feel more open, pardon the pun, to actually get going on something and really do some real work with more open source for the mainframe.
Steven Dickens:
Yeah, fantastic. I think that’s huge. I mean, we covered the announcement here. I think it’s going to be foundational for the project. As we start to move to the sort of second half of this, I always ask these questions of all the guests. I know you’ve heard these before as you are a regular avid listener to the show. I always ask, and you’ve got a fantastic career history, what advice would you give to your younger self? You go back to sort of Len age 22, you’re finishing Binghamton, it’s 1973. What advice would you give based on this storied career? What would you say to your younger self?
Leonard Santalucia:
I probably would say, “Stop trying to rush yourself out of the programming, and technical area so fast, before you start getting involved with other aspects of the business. Because it is very valuable to have that background. It’s very valuable to have that. And develop it more.” I would’ve told myself, “Develop yourself a little bit more there.” Because it just would give me even more depth in my conversations with clients and prospects, and the people who really want to understand the technology and test my abilities to answer questions that are relevant to them from a technical business and financial perspective. That’s what I would tell myself.
Steven Dickens:
I know you do a lot of mentoring. I mean, just maybe ask you an additional question. Where do you see the state of new talent coming to the platform? And I know you take a really active role. What do you see as some of those sort of either college kids or new sort of graduates coming to the platform?
Leonard Santalucia:
Well, I really believe in our Open Mainframe Project internship program, or mentorship program very much. We have started that quite a while ago. And as you might remember, we had a few people take up in the beginning. But let’s see, what’s it now? At least fourth year now, maybe fourth or fifth year going on the fifth year. This last year we had to turn away a ton of people that wanted to be, because the word has gotten out there on how valuable these internships are with the Open Mainframe Project.
But to not lose those that we had to give an answer of no, or postpone them for maybe the next round, is making sure they understand the IBM Academic Initiative, and the other members of the Open Mainframe Project like Rocket Software and Broadcoms and [inaudible 00:16:53] and ADP, and many other universities and other corporations that have programs also, so that… You don’t want to lose those that got it and say, “Oh, they don’t like me.” Or, “Oh yes, then I’ll never come back. I don’t want to leave a bad taste in their mouth.”
Making sure that they all find a place, one way or another, in this world. Get them involved with conferences like SHER, and the VM Workshop, and the Open Mainframe Project Summit and others that are out there, so that they can see and talk to other people. There’s nothing like the networking piece of this whole thing. And getting them just connected into the group. And then once I feel you kind of hook them in, then they are usually very well involved and stay involved. And I’m getting a lot of people asking me more questions. And so do my other colleagues in this with me. Which is what we hope for.
Steven Dickens:
Fantastic, fantastic. Well Len, one final question before we start to wrap up. I ask this of all the guests. I think you’ve got a unique perspective here. Where do you see this platform five, 10 years out from now? You’ve got the ability to look in the crystal ball, we’re sort of recording this in October. You’ve got that Halloween sort of crystal ball, the mists clear and you get the ability to look ahead not at z/17 in the next box, but a little bit further down the track. Where do you see the mainframe sort of going from here five, 10 years end?
Leonard Santalucia:
Well, I think, especially because of the recent announcements made with the new z/16 and its capabilities for acceleration of artificial intelligence inferences and calculations and transactions, I think this is going to catapult this Z system into another area that it doesn’t even know about or even see itself.
And you always can depend on the next 17 to 18 to 19, z/20, whatever they are, to have newer and better techno. But this is kind of a very special capability. And because of that, I think it’s going to find its way into places that you never saw Z systems considered.
I know with the press and advertising IBM has done, I have received, because people seek me out or find me, places to talk to I never would’ve talked to before, that are applying it in ways we’ve never, ever even fathomed. And that’s what’s so exciting about it. I really think that nobody will able to be predict this. As much as I would like to say I can, I just predict that it’s getting get into places where it has never been considered, ever.
Steven Dickens:
I mean, Len, I feel like I’ve hardly touched the surface. And let alone dug deep into your background on this platform. We’re going to have to get you again. This is almost a sort of first part of a three part series. I’m signing our producer up to get you back on the show. And I’m signing you up to be tortured by me again. But your career arc is just fantastic. There’s so much to unpack. It’s been a pleasure as always to chat to you, Len.
Leonard Santalucia:
You’re more than welcome.
Steven Dickens:
I was really looking forward to this today. I knew this was going to be one of the highlights of my day. So, really appreciate it. But I know we’ve both got time pressure, so we’re going to have to wrap things up.
Leonard Santalucia:
Well, just one thing in closing, it’s been such a fantastic career for me personally. Next year I will be turning 70. And I will be celebrating my 50th year really working on the mainframe. I could say 60, if I want to count that 1964 touch, which is as old as the mainframe is. But let’s keep it at 50.
Steven Dickens:
Well I think, Len, I’m angling for an invite to that celebration for sure.
Leonard Santalucia:
Oh yeah, you’re going to be one of the ones there, that’s for sure.
Steven Dickens:
Fantastic. Well, Len, thank you for joining the show. Listeners, you’ve been listening to the I am a Framer podcast. We’ll catch you on the other side. Thank you for joining us.
Leonard Santalucia:
Thank you for having me.
The “I Am A Mainframer” podcast explores the careers of those in the mainframe ecosystem. Hosted by Steven Dickens, Senior Analyst at Futurum Research, each episode is a conversation that highlights the modern mainframe, insight into the mainframe industry, and advice for those looking to learn more about the technology.
The podcast is sponsored by the Open Mainframe Project, a Linux Foundation project that aims to build community and adoption of Open Source on the mainframe by eliminating barriers to Open Source adoption on the mainframe, demonstrating the value of the mainframe.
