In this episode of the “I am a Mainframer” podcast, host Steven Dickens engages in an enlightening conversation with Cynthia Overby, the Director of Security and Customer Solutions Engineering at Rocket Software. Cynthia shares her remarkable journey – from her humble beginnings as an intern to becoming CEO and President of Key Resources.
Throughout the interview, Cynthia candidly recounts the challenges she encountered as a woman navigating the often male-dominated tech industry. Yet, her resilience and determination shine through as she reflects on the progress made and the evolving landscape of inclusivity.
Offering invaluable insights, Cynthia advocates for the power of active listening and extending the benefit of doubt to others. Her foresight into the future of mainframe technology envisions mainframes seamlessly integrating with AI, revolutionizing security protocols and unlocking new realms of possibility. Don’t miss this exciting conversation!
Watch full episode here:
Or listen to and watch the episode here:
TRANSCRIPT
Announcer:
This is the I am a Mainframer podcast, brought to you by the Linux Foundation’s Open Mainframe Project. Episodes explore the careers of mainframe professionals and offer insights into the industry and technology. Now your host, Senior Analyst and Vice President of Sales and Business Development at Futurum Research, Steven Dickens.
Steven Dickens:
Hello, welcome. My name’s Steven Dickens, and you’re joining us here on another episode of the I’m a Mainframer podcast, brought to you by the Linux Foundation’s Open Mainframe Project. I’m joined by Cynthia Overby from Rocket. Hey, Cynthia, welcome to the show.
Cynthia Overby:
Thank you.
Steven Dickens:
So we’ve been chatting over the last couple of weeks. Great to get you on the show finally, tell the listeners and viewers a little bit about what you do for Rocket and we’ll use that as a jumping off point.
Cynthia Overby:
Sure. I’m currently the Director of Security Services responsible for setting the direction for security solutions and the delivery of those security solutions to our customers.
Steven Dickens:
So security on the mainframe about as vital as thing for the world economy as it’s possible to be. So maybe let’s expand a little on your role and then we’ll go into talking a little bit about your track record and how you’ve got to that place.
Cynthia Overby:
Certainly
Steven Dickens:
Take us away.
Cynthia Overby:
Okay. So basically Rocket acquired Key Resources back in March of ’23. Key Resources was a mainframe services and software company that was founded in 1988 by my husband and myself. We have focused on the mainframe forever basically. And what Rocket was looking for was an organization with a set of individuals who could take them from having very little in terms of security solutions to being the best of the best. And so that’s really what I’m responsible for, is to help guide them into being the best of the best when it comes to mainframe security, whether it be software or whether it be in the services area associated with compliance, audits, scanning, pen testing, whatever you would focus on from a mainframe security perspective. So that’s really my role.
Steven Dickens:
So we were chatting, what was it a week ago, two weeks ago now, time’s flying by for me. I can’t believe we’re recording this on the 1st of March, but you shared some of your career history and this is the I’m a Mainframer show. This is all about you. I’m really lucky to host a show and get a view to chat to some of the best and brightest in the industry. I really took away from our initial conversation a couple of weeks ago that there’s been a fantastic story arc there of how time on the platform. So maybe let’s stop talking about security products and stop talking about Rocket. Somebody in Rocket Marketing’s probably not liking me right now, but let’s make this about you. Tell me when you first got on the platform, what was that first exposure to the mainframe and then we’ll start to join some of those dots up.
Cynthia Overby:
So I got interested in computer systems and the mainframe through my boyfriend. He was a systems programmer and they had a Sunstrand corporation about 40 years ago because there was really very little in terms of education on mainframe. There were some universities that were teaching mainframe, but they had an intern program and internship and he bugged me and said, you should really try this. You’re interested in it. And so I applied and I got into the internship program at Sunstrand as a Systems Programmer. And I did that for a year. I learned all the pieces that go around mainframe on an Amdahl, not on an IBM box, but on an Amdahl box, red versus blue. And at the point in time where I graduated, they had purchased ACF2 which was the very first security product for the mainframe. And they basically said, we want you to be our security officer. And I said, well, what does that entail? Because there wasn’t any job description and they said, you get to make it whatever you think it is. So that’s really kind of where I started back in 1978.
Steven Dickens:
So they were allowing kindergartner’s to become security officers?
Cynthia Overby:
Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. I got to go to Japan and be nice to the Japanese who were being taught security concepts for the very first time I went to Amaco, Aramco, excuse me, in Saudi Arabia and had to wear scarfs all the time while I was there and be escorted and teach them about security. I got to go all over the world really to anybody that was doing services or partner with Sunstrand to get them aligned into our security program and learn to be security administrators. So I had an amazing opportunity at the beginning of my career.
Steven Dickens:
That’s fascinating. Going back all that time to ACF2 starting to be rolled out, getting that global perspective, what were some of the key takeaways? I mean I’ll take you back there, but what were some of the key takeaways? You got that chance still sounds relatively early on in your career, given a lot of responsibility, and then given a global sort of focus, what was the learning points and key takeaways from that?
Cynthia Overby:
Well, if I take it from a woman’s perspective, I learned early on that I had to be a lot more forceful than my personality led me to and to be cognizant of different cultures and what I could say and what I couldn’t say and how you fit the software, the program, the procedures, the processes into that culture. It’s not you’re going to do it this way, you’re going to do it the way that it meets the requirements within their specific culture. But it was eye-opening for me because I was going into places where there weren’t any women in the workforce and when I was in Japan at three o’clock, they would take their tea time and they didn’t know what to do with me. It was like they felt bad, but they couldn’t take me along with them because at that point in time, there really weren’t any women in the workforce and I had to be gracious and just kind of go with the flow.
Steven Dickens:
Well, it’s fascinating. We’re recording this episode for Women’s History Month. I love this podcast. I’ve been doing it now about four years, maybe even more than that, and I get to talk to some powerhouse women who’ve run the platform and that’s fantastic. We’ve had a lot of really amazing female guests, but I think some of the historical context, I mean it’s really fascinating for me listening to you talk about that in 2024, that scenario just would not happen. Now I don’t know much about Japanese afternoon tea ceremonies, but I’d love to being a Brit, but I’d imagine they’ve had to be a lot more culturally accepting now, but if you went back late seventies, early eighties, very different time. Am I phrasing that right in thinking about that right?
Cynthia Overby:
Yes. It was very different. It was a very, very different time. Sunstrand actually had me take cultural classes. So as I went into these different places, I at least had an idea of what I was going to run into and how to deal with particular situations as they came up.
Steven Dickens:
And have you seen that change? Have you seen that change? To wind kind of forward where we are obviously a senior leader as a female executive within Rocket. Where do you see that sort of transition to now?
Cynthia Overby:
Well, certainly there are many, many more women leaders in the industry than there were. There’s many individuals who have started IT tech companies and are very successful. So from a point of view of sitting in a meeting with other leaders, whatever, I feel very accepted. I feel very respected now versus then, there are still times when it’s difficult to be heard. You have to be aggressive even today, you have to be aggressive to get your voice heard in many respects and not be considered to be being abrupt or rude or whatever across the globe. But in most instances, you’re not the only woman in the room. There are other women specifically in the room who have a great deal to add to the conversation.
Steven Dickens:
The father to four daughters. I sort of take this kind of onboard and they’ve certainly got a voice and it’s certainly heard around my house, let me put it that way. I’m outnumbered, even got a female dog. So I’m outnumbered five women to one in my house. But I joke about it, but it’s really important to me to be able to showcase executives like yourself, tell those stories. We have had some early stage professionals who were females on the show recently. I think it’s just vital to be able to tell that story. It’s really crucial to be able to give people like yourself the platform to be able to tell that, normalize it not only for those women who are in the workplace, but also for men to hear that. That it’s still what we’ve got work to do. I think it’s vital. I mean, let’s maybe go back to your history a little bit. And so we talked about the first role spending some time jet setting around the world as it was, maybe give sort of join the dots up between there and where we are today at Rocket.
Cynthia Overby:
Okay. I moved to the Chicagoland area after I got married. My husband accepted a job in Chicago and so I followed along and became a CICS systems programmer for Continental Bank. And I did that for many years. And then while at Continental, I moved over and became an auditor, an IT auditor. Did that for several years and then had an opportunity to join SKK and become a developer and analyst for the ACF2 MVS software program. And did that until they were purchased by Computer Associates. I stuck around for about a year, was the development manager for both Top Secret and ACF2 for a while, and then decided that it wasn’t a good fit for me and left and went over to Baxter, which is a very large pharmaceutical based in the Chicago land area, and started there as a Director in their operations group and ended up being the VP of Corporate Direction, Corporate IT Direction. Very interesting position. Baxter’s an organization that culturally has CIO’s in each region and then they have CIO’s for each of the business units. So there were 12 CIO’s that I had to deal with
Steven Dickens:
I can imagine that was fun and games.
Cynthia Overby:
So I had the opportunity to help them set direction in terms of email across the corporate environment, which was interesting because each of the CIO’s had their own direction. Some wanted to go with the IBM route with Lotus Notes. Some wanted to go the Microsoft route with Outlook. And so trying to herd, I was herding cats. I was along the way.
Steven Dickens:
12 CIOs all with an opinion, I can imagine. That was fun.
Cynthia Overby:
And it was a lot of fun. So that was Baxter and then kind of moved along, worked for Hewitt for quite a while as the VP in charge of their global network, managing the build out of the regional offices worldwide for them. And then at the point where my husband came to me waving the flag and said, “Well, we’re not going to do services anymore, we’re going to write software.” I said, oops, that wasn’t in the mission statement, but if that’s the direction you want to take, I think I better join the company. And that was back in 2007 and that’s when I became the CEO and President of Key Resources.
Steven Dickens:
That’s a fantastic piece.
Cynthia Overby:
Yeah,
Steven Dickens:
My wife and I’m coming up on married 25 years and I think one of the things that means she’s been able to put up with me for that time is probably that we don’t work together. Always fascinated to understand about husband and wifes that work together. So maybe just spend a couple of minutes there just purely for my own fascination, and how that came together.
Cynthia Overby:
Sure. Ray is two stories down, and so he’s a technologist, he’s a security guru. Many people around the world know who Ray Overby is from a mainframe security perspective, but he’s a visionary. And my job is to focus that vision and keep it moving in the right direction. He is very much someone who has an idea and wants to bounce that off. And he wrote the first vulnerability scanner for the mainframe of VAP back in 2007. It was way before its time, but has over the past, I’d say five years really taken off in terms of the world now understands the difference between pen testing and vulnerability scanning. And with some of the new requirements coming out of DORA in the UK and in Europe for financial institutions having to basically do what they say that they’re doing and be accountable for it, its time has come. But just from a life perspective, we’ve always tried to live in harmony. We’re very different people, but we both love to trout fish and our vacations are fishing, trout fishing all over the world. So we both love science fiction. So we have things that are very much in common in our personal lives, but in our professional lives people will tell you that we’ll have heated discussions in meetings and people will be like, oh my god, but it’s work. And we always managed to come to some agreement. Somehow one of us will back down.
Steven Dickens:
That sounds fascinating, Cynthia. I mean it was interesting. I was hanging on your every word and then you say we go trout fishing and we like science fiction. As you can probably see over here, I’m a bit of a science fiction nerd. Star Wars is my jam. I’ve probably watched every documentary there is about the Apollo missions. So maybe we need to be talking about that if we see each other SHARE next week but…
Cynthia Overby:
Next week. Sure.
Steven Dickens:
Yeah. But fascinating to hear the interaction with you and your husband coming at him, the technologist, you, the CEO, the visionary, the sort of execution piece. Fascinating to hear that. So let’s finish this journey and get us all the way to Rocket. Key Resources gets acquired. Talk to me a little bit about your personal transition from being CEO of the company into a big corporate like Rocket. Fantastic organization, know some of the team there really well, but maybe just talk a little bit about being the head honcho through to being back a mid-level exec again. How did that transition pan out?
Cynthia Overby:
It’s been rough at times. I’m very much a type A person. I’m used to people doing what I tell them to do. And so there have been times when it’s been difficult for me to sit back and say, okay, I don’t have, this is above my pay grade at this point, but I can honestly say that the people that I work with and fo,r listen to what I say, take every word that I speak, and are thoughtful about the direction we need to take. Everyone is very respectful. Everyone, they practice what they preach. There’s a lot of empathy there. They knew it was going to be hard for me. And there have been times when I’ve sent emails in all caps, which doesn’t follow the direction and I’ve been told to calm it down a little bit. But overall, I can say at this point, it’s been a year now. March 1st is a year since the acquisition. And I’m feeling, I’m feeling very comfortable in my role and that I do have the ability to set that direction, and that I am supported, and they do listen and they respect Ray and I very, very much. And when we speak, we are speaking from experience and knowledge.
Steven Dickens:
Yeah, I mean I’ve had the pleasure of spending a whole bunch of time with some of the leadership team, fantastic individuals over there at Rocket. I think there’s something to be aware of and something to going from that CEO to an executive is a transition because the book used to stop with you and nothing was above your pay grade. You were the most senior person. So I mean that’s fascinating and thank you for the transparency there. Really interested in some of the, how did you managed that transition. Well, I always ask a couple of questions of my guests on the show and I’m really fascinated to get your answers. I joked earlier that you were a really early entrant into this market and kindergartners were allowed to go and become security officers. So I’m trying to be respectful of your sort of experience. But if you could go back maybe and talk to Cynthia, age 21, 22, we’ve got a lot of younger listeners, what would you say? You’ve got some fantastic experience. What would those nuggets be? What would those things be that you could go back and maybe guide your younger self?
Cynthia Overby:
Listen more, speak less.
Steven Dickens:
That’s mine. I love the quote from Hamilton, smile more speak less.
Cynthia Overby:
It took me years to develop that skill.
Steven Dickens:
I’m still on that journey. I’m still not there, Cynthia. So I hear that one loud and clear.
Cynthia Overby:
The other thing would be to practice benefit of the doubt.
Steven Dickens:
Okay. You need to expand on that one. That one’s got me. You’ve peaked my interest there.
Cynthia Overby:
Yeah. We live in such a complex world and you sometimes, and we work remotely, we don’t always see each other. Sometimes we work with people, we have people that report to us that we’ve never actually really met. And everyone has their quirks. Everyone has their stresses, their personal stresses in their life that they have to deal with. And you need to be able to, when you’re frustrated with somebody, give them the benefit of the doubt, understand what might be happening behind the scenes and assume that people are doing the best they can possibly do. Always assume that people are really trying because in 99% of the cases, that really is the case. Individuals really do want to do their best and give their best. And if they’re not, there’s a reason for it.
Steven Dickens:
Yeah, it’s fascinating that you mentioned that. I think as we’ve gone remote over the last maybe four years, one of the lessons that my CEO’s passed on to me and I now try and operationalize it, is you’re in one of those Slack threads, tensions are getting a little bit raised. Stop, pick up the phone, call the human being, have a human interaction because however good a writer you are, however good, your written word is, there’s no context, there’s no inflection, there’s no ability to have a joke, there’s no ability to diffuse and it can ratchet up. So it’s fascinating that you mentioned that. I think I’m going to take that away as a key takeaway for me. Give people the benefit of the doubt more. One of the ones I’ve been sort of doing over is forming opinion slower. I’m a snappy guy, gets straight to an opinion, trying to be more considerate, trying to be more thoughtful, trying to form opinions about people slower. So it’s fascinating. I think over a beer next week we’re going to pick up on that. Over SHARE. You’ve picked my interest. Sounds good. So my final question that I always ask all the guests, and I think with your track record on the platform, I’m fascinated to hear your answer to this. You’ve got a crystal ball, the mist are clearing and you get the ability to see the mainframe five years out from now, what do you think it looks like?
Cynthia Overby:
It’s a huge, huge data store, and it’s used effectively with AI because the only place you’re going to be able to use AI effectively and to be able to respond to a lot of the requests coming in example ATM, the SLA’s on ATM’s, on how quickly you can get people the information that they need when they’re standing out there in the frigid cold looking to get money.
Steven Dickens:
We’ve all been there, right? You’re trying to type with fingers that are cold, you’ve taken your gloves off.
Cynthia Overby:
Right? And so the financial institution has implemented AI to make sure that you are who you say you are. Try and do that on a distributed platform. It’s impossible. You’ve got to have that mainframe power behind you to be able to instantaneously know whether that person is who they are. And there’s so many other applications for AI on the mainframe, specifically that and with the knowledge that the hackers have access, the foreign governments have access to AI. If you look at the phishing and how sophisticated it’s getting now, it’s very difficult to tell that you’re getting a phishing email versus the way it was because they’ve got AI and they learn an awful lot from you. I always tell people, be careful what you put on LinkedIn. They’re using that information to figure out who you are, what your responsibilities are, what your authorities are, and whether to use you or not to be able to hack into that mainframe or hack into someplace. And they will use it. And they are in whether you like to believe it or not. And so yeah, I really do think it’s going to be the mainframe is the main data store utilizing AI to do a lot of functions that will keep us secure.
Steven Dickens:
Well, Cynthia, I can’t think of a better way to wrap up our conversation. Thank you so much for joining me on this Women’s History Month. Your track record, your experiences area a shining light for other women looking to get onto the platform.
Cynthia Overby:
I hope so. And hopefully that I can pay it forward.
Steven Dickens:
Fantastic. Well, you’ve been listening to the I’m a Mainframer podcast. I’m your host, as always, Stephen Dickens. Please click and subscribe and do all those things to help the algorithm and we’ll see you next time for another episode. Until then, thanks so much for listening.
Announcer:
Thank you for tuning in to I Am a Mainframer. Liked what you heard? Subscribe to get every episode or watch us online at openmainframeproject.org. Until next time, this is the I Am A Mainframer podcast, insights for today’s mainframe professionals.
